Первый полет транспортного Ил-476 наметили на 2011 год
Тема: Первый полет транспортного Ил-476 наметили на 2011 год
Обсуждаем: Первый полет транспортного Ил-476 наметили на 2011 год, Lenta.Ru, 29.12.2009
На последних фотках - обычный Ил-76.
Скорее всего в процессе ремонта или модернизации в какой-нибудь спецвариант.
15:25 Алексей пишет:
"На последних фотках - обычный Ил-76."
Вот меня то же ощущение не покидает.
Вы по лючкам что-ли идентифицировать пытаетесь?
А может, китайцы плюнув, на всуропленные хохлами варианты КД, занимаются тупым реинженирингом Ил-76?
Общаяя геомерия (так скажем) этой части ф-жа очь похожи.
А что гадать? Лейтенант писал
"Так что, очень интересно, чем ТТС (китайский) отличался от Ан-70 ишшо?
Пожалуйста:
Фюзеляж - диаметром 5.6м сохранил носовую часть, но удлинился на 2.9м, причем длина грузовой кабины "подросла" до 21.5 (против 19.5), а "куцую" 4.5-метровую рампу заменила совершенно новая 6.5-метровая a la Ил-76..."
Для справки: диаметр фюзеляжа Ан-70 ( в мидельной части) 5.60 м, Ил-76 - 4.80 м
Ф-3 с рампой для китайца проектировали антоновцы пару лет назад. И как говорят, антоновцы когда-то проектиовали Ф-3 с рампой для Ил-76
хорошая статья:
Y-XX / Y-20??? / Grand Canal ? / C919 Military Variant
The 2010 Report To Congress of The U.S.-China Economic And Security Review Commission states that: "China has made little progress in modernizing its air transport fleet since its last effort in the early 1990s when it bought 18 Russian-made IL-76s. China currently is designing a 200-ton transport aircraft, which, when completed, is to be comparable to the U.S. Air Force C-130." [page 78] The source of this intelligence is unclear, since the open sources cited make no reference to such an airplane. The maximum takeoff weight of the latest C-130J is 87 tons, so a 200-ton aircraft would be in a completely different performance class. In 2005 two Flight International reporters — Brendan Sobie and Andrew Doyle — broke the story that China's Xian Aircraft Corp was developing a four-engine jet transport sized between the C-130 and the C-17.
The development of large aircraft is listed as one of China's 16 major development plans in the country's 11th Five-Year Program (2006-2010). The goal is to produce a large transport aircraft for civil and military purposes by 2015, with entry into civilian service by 2020. According to the president of AVIC-I, the first model of China's Large Civil Aircraft [LCA], a freighter, should be ready by 2018, followed by a 150-seat passenger aircraft. Within a week after Premier Wen Jiabao's 05 March 2006 report on government work to the Chinese National People's Congress, it was clear that the development of "jumbo aircraft" was one of 16 new programs for the 11th Five Year Plan from 2006 to 2010. An official from the AVIC-1 aviation consortium clarified that "jumbo aircraft" referred to a planned "150-seat" airliner, and a 100-ton cargo transport.
Some are calling it 'Y-XX', others go out on a limb with 'Y-13' [which seems to have been applied to the Il-76], while after the debut of the J-20 stealth fighter the Y20 designation drew attention. China seems pretty excited about its chances in the world market. "China's jumbo aircraft will initially target the domestic market. But the ultimate aim is to compete with Boeing and Airbus on the international market," said Jin Qiansheng, deputy director of the administrative committee of Xi'an Yanliang State Aviation High-tech Industry Base. According to Xinhua, China considers an aircraft to be in the "jumbo" category if it can carry 150 passengers and has a gross weight of more than 200,000 pounds.
The simultaneous announcement of two Large Civil Aircraft, one a freighter, and the other a 150-seat passenger aircraft, initially led to some confusion that these two projects envisioned a single aircraft produced in freighter and passenger variants. If the images portrayed by China's Xinhua news agency were accurate, China's jetliner for the 21st century looked suspiciously like a Russian military transport from the 1970s. The high-wing, high-tailed creation, with its multiple banks of landing gear trucks clustered under the fuselage, looks like the big Antonovs that still toil as chartered military cargo aircraft. It looked nothing like the sleek shape of the Boeing 787 that many consider the technology driver of the next generation of commercial airliners.
This made some sense, as a military freighter would be a low risk path to test systems that would subsequently find use on a commercial aircraft. Indeed, there was speculative artwork depicted a generic high-wing military transport outfitted as a passenger plane. In 2001 Japan had launched an indigenous aircraft program that intende to share a common airframe with the domestic C-2 high-wing twin-engine military transport and a low-wing P-1 four-engine Maritime Patrol Aircraft. Plans were also under way to develop the YP-X, a 120-150 seat passenger aircraft derived from the XP-1. However, as details of the Chinese passenger plane emerged, it became clear that it was of conventional layout, lacking the high wing required by a dedicated military transport.
Outlook Weekly via Xinhua News Agency (in Chinese), translated by China Digital Times (CDT), reported on March 29, 2006: "Developing large airplanes, with 100-ton and greater cargo or 150-passenger and greater capacity, has become a key component in promoting the development of aeronautics industry in China's 11th " Five-Year Plan." China will, at an appropriate timing during the 11th "Five-Year Plan," launch the R&D of large airplanes, said Jin Zhuanglong, spokesperson of the Commission for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense, or COSTIND."
But this is a mis-translation. " "The development of aircraft included in the national medium-and long-term science and technology development plan and the platform for "25" of the plan, it should be said is this based on a clear understanding of the situation at home and abroad of the Government decision. "Was involved in the Organization of the State Council's" large aircraft project demonstration group "of the Central Policy Research Office Wang Chaoping in acceptance of the lookout, a researcher at an interview with Newsweek say with certainty. The so-called large aircraft, refers to the take-off gross weight of more than 100 tons of transport aircraft, including military and civil large transport planes, including trunk passenger aircraft of more than 150 seats. It is the main civil aviation's most widely used models."
The initial suggestion that the "100-ton" figure referenced the airplane's cargo capacity led to speculation that China was planning to build an analog of the Antonov AN-124-100M-150, currently the world's largest transport aircraft, with a maximum payload of 150 tons and a maximum takeoff weight of about 400 tons. According to the Chinese web site, China Military Aviation, the "Y-20" will weigh more than 400,000lb, placing the transport between between the 585,000lb C-17 and the roughly 311,000lb A400M.
The 603 Institute, XAC and SAC are developing an advanced 4-engine large transport. It is said that this design was begun by AVIC-I to rival the AVIC-II / Antonov ASTC proposal for a 4-turbofan derivative of the An-70. People's Daily Online reported on November 06, 2009 that "China's large aircraft have seen much development lately. A 200-ton military aircraft will make its debut at the end of this year; it will be China's largest military aircraft. The aircraft was independently developed and created by AVIC (China Aviation Industry Group) Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Company Ltd., said Hu Xiaofeng, president of AVIC Aircraft Corporation. " Obvsiously, this did not happen, at least not in public.
Fitted with high-lift devices on the wing's leading and trailing edges, the aircraft would be capable of taking off from relatively short and unpaved runways, giving access to temporary airfields near the battlefield. It is unclear whether the aircraft will have an IFR probe installed or not. The four engines that would power the Y-XX remain a focus of speculation. While the project is planned with Ukrainian development assistance, it is unclear whether China would use home-made engines or get the engine production line from Ukraine. The prototypes and the initial production run may be powered by the WS-18 turbofans (Russian D-30KP-2), while later production aircraft would be powered by a High Bypass Ratio [HBR] turbofan derived from the modified FWS-10 by 603 Institute.
In July 2008 CFM International launched LEAP-X, an entirely new baseline turbofan engine to power future replacements for current narrow-body aircraft. CFM International (CFM) is a 50/50 joint venture between Snecma (SAFRAN Group) and General Electric Company. LEAP-X1C engine will be assembled in China. LEAP-X thrust baseline for the C919 starts at 30,000 lbs - with much more growth potential. The first full demonstrator engine was scheduled to run in 2012, and LEAP-X could be certified by 2016. The LEAP-X1C-powered C919 is the beginning of a new chapter in the collaboration between CFM, the Chinese aviation industry and Chinese airline customers - a relationship that goes back more than 25 years. as of 2010 there were more than 2,300 CFM56 engines in service or on order with Chinese airlines, representing more than 10 percent of CFM's commercial fleet.
In the US, on 16 July 2009, a former Boeing employee was convicted of selling C-17 technical details to China. Dongfan "Greg" Chung, 72, of Orange, Calif., who was employed by Rockwell International from 1973 until its defense and space unit was acquired by Boeing in 1996, was arrested February 11, 2008 without incident at his residence by special agents with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and investigators with NASA. Chung, a native of China who is a naturalized United States citizen, held a Secret security clearance when he worked at Rockwell and Boeing on the Space Shuttle program. He retired from the company in 2002, but the next year he returned to Boeing as a contractor, a position he held until September 2006. The indictment alleged that he took and concealed Boeing trade secrets relating to the Space Shuttle, the C-17 military transport aircraft and the Delta IV rocket. Individuals in the Chinese aviation industry hd begun sending Chung "tasking" letters as early as 1979. A May 2, 1987 letter from Gu Weihao, an official in the Ministry of Aviation and China Aviation Industry Corporation, concluded with the statement: "It is your honor and China's fortune that you are able to realize your wish of dedicating yourself to the service of your country." Chung responded in one undated letter that "I would like to make an effort to contribute to the Four Modernizations of China."
China-Defense-Mashup reported 05 November 2009 "this military transport airfraft project was initiated before 3-4 years. Chinese Government has esteemed this project as "National Significant Project". The Military department believes that the R&D on heavy airlifter should be based on the mature and reliable technologies, but its performance can approach the international advanced transport aircraft with Chinese independent innovative technologies. It can be summarized that China's future Military Heavy airlifter Prototype will be designed on Russia's IL-76MD. But China's airlift aircraft will has an expanded size and payload capacity, improved electronic devices, and even some concepts absorbed from C-17. For the Engine, China will probably use D-30 engines and then replace them by WS-18 or advanced 4 high-Bypass ratio turbofan engines developed from FWS-10."
There are reports that a wind tunnel model and cockpit section have been built. A full-scale metal mock-up of the forward fuselage of the Y-20 was said to have been constructed by 2008. On 20 August 2009 SAC was said to have started work on the rear fuselage of the first prototype. Nov. 05, 2009, at the first anniversary of Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), its general manager Hu Xiao-feng announced that China Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Company had been taking a sole role on the exploration and manufacturing of this airlift. As of 2010 the first flight was projected in 2012. It was reported in April 2010 that a full-scale mock-up was completed in early 2010. In 2010 the always fantastic China Military Aviation site posted the first images of the Y-20.
Jane's All the World's Aircraft [Publication date May 25, 2010] relates that "Design reportedly initiated in about 2005, involving input from No. 603 Institute and "some technology" from Il-76. Reported that rear fuselage for prototype was under construction at SAC (Shaanxi) by end of 2009; maiden flight targeted for 2012. Rumoured designation Y-20 not confirmed or explained (highest transport aircraft designation used hitherto was Y-16 for abortive project to licence-build Boeing 737)."
China is seeking to carry out the maiden flight of its first large transporter aircraft in 2012, according to a 12 May 2011 press release on the website of Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Company (XAC). Gao Jianshe, vice general manger of Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), said in a speech that all cadres and employees of the AVIC Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Company (XAC) should complete their scientific research and production and ensure that the large jet will make its maiden flight before the 18th CPC National Congress scheduled next yea. The XAC's press release was later removed from its official website. XAC has been studying large transporter aircraft since 1993 and was selected as the major contractor for the aircraft in 2007, mainly in charge of the integration and assembly of the aircraft. The company specializes in manufacturing bombers, fighter-bombers and regional passenger aircraft.
Richard D. Fisher, Jr., Senior Fellow, International Assessment and Strategy Center, in Testimony for the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission Hearing on China's Emergent Military Aerospace and Commercial Aviation Capabilities, May 20, 2010, noted that "It is not clear if the "200-ton" aircraft is the same as the AVIC-1 transport concept, but Chinese internet reporting has indicated this aircraft is designed to carry a 60-ton payload, which would place it in the same class as the Russian Ilyushin Il-76 and the U.S. Boeing C-17.... By the 2020s new strategic aircraft may ... allow the PLA to combine new capabilities in maritime power projection with long-range strategic air force projection.... A large fleet of C-17-size transports plus the new airmobile medium weight armor forces the PLA is building today will give China options for global rapid military maneuver."
Chinese military inductry would also have a better homemade platform for domestic production of aerial-tanker, AWACS, large anti-submarine patrol aircraft, and large electronic reconnaissance aircraft. It was also rumored that the aircraft might serve as the testbed for the rumored Chinese airborne laser weapon prototype similar to American YAL-1 which is thought to be under development. But the vastly larger Boeing 747 has turned out to be undersized for an anti-missile laser, so a Chinese laser-armed airplane might be more like the American Tactical Laser, a C-130 laser gunship.
The Y-20 designation for this aircraft has been associated with the name Grand Canal.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/y-xx.htm
Жаль по ссылкам там картинки вариантов у меня не окрыватся :
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/y-xx-pics.htm
Отдельно про участи КБ Атонова ( которое вроде как должно было в это время доводить Ан-70 доума)
Y-XX / Y-20??? - Antonov Participation
In June 2000 it was reported that Russia and Ukraine would build the new-generation Antonov 70 transport aircraft, not with Germany, as had been planned, but with China. Russian Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev said that negotiations with Berlin had resulted in the Germans saying they would not support the joint Ukrainian-Russian An-70 project, Interfax reported. ``We won't try to win over the Germans, but will complete the project with China," Sergeyev said. A Chinese military delegation visited Ukraine and expressed an interest in the AN-70 transport aircraft.
At the Zhuhai airshow in November 2000, Antonow tried to market the An-70 in China. This would likely involve co-production with AVIC II. The Antonov Design Bureau offered cooperation to the Shansiy aircraft building corporation to build a new airplane using Antonov An-70 as a basic model. The Chinese side left the offer unanswered, although the proposition was negotiated during Li Peng's visit to Ukraine in the middle of 2000.
At the 2008 Zhuhai airshow, Antonov displayed a model of the large An-70 military transport aircraft, based on which China and Ukraine could jointly develop the AN-70-600. The new An-70-600 transport aircraft's maximum payload was expected be 48t-50t compared to An-70's 47t. One of China's requirements is that An-70-600's flight range should be at least 3,200km when carrying the maximum load. China also hoped that it can carry at least 3 China-made infantry fighting vehicles, or 120-150 paratroopers.
According to Ukrainian sources, the Antonov bureau had proposed a radical development of its An-70 transport that would replace its current contra-rotating propfan engines with four turbofan engines, lengthen the fuselage and increase cargo capacity to between 50 and 60 tons. This would approach the 70-ton capacity of the Boeing C-17 and exceed the 50-ton capability of the Ilyushin Il-76MD. The Chinese military transport aircraft would adopt different design concepts and technologies than the An-70 transport aircraft designed by Ukraine and Russia, and will be powered by four jet engines.
It appeared the new An-70 variant may be able to carry four of the ZLC-2000 airborne tank revealed in 2005 by the PLA. In September 2005 the PLA agreed to purchase about 32 Il-76MD transports, which can carry three ZLC-2000s, in addition to about 20 acquired during the 1990s. Antonov has also helped China's Shaanxi Aircraft Company to produce a much improved version of the Y-8 called the Y-9, which can carry 20 tons of cargo. In addition, China has held discussions with Antonov regarding the possible co-production of the 150-ton capacity An-124 Ruslan, which exceeds the 120-ton capacity of the US C-5 transport.
Richard D. Fisher, Jr., Senior Fellow, International Assessment and Strategy Center, in Testimony for the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission Hearing on China's Emergent Military Aerospace and Commercial Aviation Capabilities, May 20, 2010, noted that "This decade will ... see the emergence of a new C-17 size Chinese strategic transport aircraft.... it can be expected that during this year or next that AVIC will reveal more details on this large transport. In 2006 Ukrainian officials noted they had been hired as consultants by X'ian Aircraft Design and Research Institute (603 Institute) to consult on large aircraft programs, to include the possible adaptation of Antonov's turbofan-powered An-70 for turbofan propulsion. Then in 2007 a Ukrainian official confirmed that images of a model of a Chinese four-turbofan military transport was another AVIC-1 design."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/y-xx-antonov.htm
Shant, уж извините, нет времени рыться в архивах лейтенената - а откуда сии сведения о геометрии Y-20?
15:25 Алексей пишет:
На последних фотках - обычный Ил-76.
********
Подтверждаю.
- если верить этой моделькt, китацы избавились от украинского влияния.
Продувочная модель Y-20
2 Алексей
12:54 leutenant пишет:
И.Исакову...
Ну как сказать - новое... ежели считать, что Y-20 есть не что иное как ТТС, то:
http://www.aviaport.ru/conferences/40678/110.html#p86922
АПЗ , а отчего Вам рыдать хочется позвольте полюбопытствовать?
Что Ан12, что Геркулес по габаритам грузового отсека прилично уступают. У Ана ещё и негерметичная.
Крейсерские скорости отличаются довольно солидно.
Ан12 в своё время разрабатывался под вес груза в своё12 тонн. И тут далеко за 20 заявленных уйдут по традиции.
А вес. Геркулес весит 80 тонн, везет меньше 20. И не жалуется никто.
Тяговооружённость выше, чем у Ил76 процентов на 30. А у Ан178 как с этим обстоит?
Прокомментируете?
А вообще от размаха замыслов соседских авиастроителей захватывает дух. На разработку Ан178 нужно всего то 2 года и 150 млн $.
Зато рынок - около 800 машин. Демократичная цена в 20-25 млн. Прибыль планируется довольно приличная - до 20 млрд. Правда смущает, что основной рынок как принято - Россия.
Интересно, потянем несколько сотен?
>>>захватывает дух. На разработку Ан178 нужно всего то 2 года и 150 млн $.
большая доля аккуратного copy-paste, аднака
не удивлюсь, если большинство систем возьмут от Ан-148 без изменений
из нового - фюзеляж, форсированные Д436
Тот же Ил476 - это новое крыло + новые системы - схожий уровень сложности, КМК
14:54 К. Ярослав пишет:"... Тот же Ил476 - это новое крыло + новые системы - схожий уровень сложности, КМК..."
- Думаю, технические риски и финансовые затраты по упомянутым Вами причинам у проекта Ан-178 вполне приемлемые...
Насчёт рынка - тут как всегда для его организации нужна "государева воля"....
Главное, что бы как в проекте Ан-148 серийное производство и основные комплектаторы были Российскими...
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